An interview with Diane Ravitch: professor, historian and author.

Ravitch, Diane

ACTE: You have a passion to protect teachers and public schools. What was the impetus for your passion and drive?

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DR: When I see bullies picking on people who can't defend themselves, it makes me angry. It makes me want to help the weaker party. In the present instance, some very powerful bullies who are governors, legislators, Members of Congress and billionaires are picking on teachers. I defend the teaching profession because we can't improve education by making teaching a despised job. I defend teachers because they can't defend themselves. I defend public education because it is an essential institution in a democratic society, and it should not be turned into a profit center by people who see dollar signs, not children.

ACTE: What advice would you give to teachers who are burdened by "teaching to the test?"

DR: My advice is to keep your sense of ethics and values intact. Teaching to the test is wrong. It is unprofessional and unethical. If you are forced to do it, or be fired, you do it, but do it without losing your sense of what is right and wrong. Hold on to your values because the current mania for testing will not last forever. And when this time has passed, you can return to doing what you know is right for students.

ACTE: What would you like to see happen in the U.S. educational system? What countries are "getting it right?"

DR: I would like to see a clear understanding that test scores .are not the goal of education. I would like to see political leaders asking, "How can we make sure there is a good public school in every neighborhood?" rather than "How can we incentivize teachers to raise test scores?" I would like to see a broad understanding that: the lives of children and families have a huge impact on educational performance. I would like to see respect for teachers and admiration for experienced teachers. I would like to see educational leaders who insist that every school have a full, rich curriculum; that tests be used diagnostically, not as punishment and reward; that schools have the small classes that children need, especially in the early grades; that schools have the resources--the social workers, librarians, guidance counselors, etc.--to meet the diverse needs of children. The nation that I would look to as a model is Finland, which gives no standardized tests, values teachers and allows them to teach without micromanagement.

ACTE: Is there a war between private enterprise and public education?

DR: No, there is not a war. But there is a definite effort to privatize public education and mine it for profit.

ACTE: Why are creativity and innovation so important in education?

DR: Creativity arid innovation are important not just in education, but in society. If we don't have new ideas, if we don't encourage fresh thinking, we will stagnate as a nation. We want a generation of young people who are prepared to think anew, not to follow orders.

ACTE: Your audience is CTE teachers. What role, if any, do you see CTE playing in fixing what's broken in the education system?

DR: At present, many education leaders are focused only on academic learning, which is certainly important. No less important is to recognize that many young people do not want a BA, but do want to be prepared for the kinds of jobs and careers available now and for the foreseeable future.

ACTE: You are a graduate of Houston public schools. Do you feel education was "done right" in your time as a student?

DR: No. I went to segregated schools. That was wrong. There was too much textbook learning, not enough exploration.

ACTE: In a recent speech at the University of North Carolina-Charlotte, you said that the privatization of schools is a "radical" scheme. Why is privatization a danger?

DR: Privatization will destroy public education in the U.S. That is a radical scheme. Public education helped to make us a great nation. We can't afford to turn education over to amateurs, for-profit vendors, businesses and churches; the mission of public education is to make citizens, to create the intelligence and wit and will to lead our country in the future. We can't outsource that to private enterprise. What we can reasonably expect from privatization is more segregation, more stratification, more inequity.

ACTE: If we stay on the present trajectory with education reforms/programs, where do you see public schools in 20 years? 50 years?

DR: I we stay on the same trajectory, we will lose public education. We will have two publicly funded systems: One will be for those who opt out of public schools, the other will be for those who were rejected by choice programs. We will have a system of academic apartheid--separate and unequal.

ACTE: What do you want your legacy to be?

DR: I want to be remembered as someone who took stock of what I believed and concluded that I was wrong, then devoted the balance of my life to making it right. I want to be remembered as someone who used history and social science to support the common good.

Diane Ravitch will be speaking at the Friday General Session at VISION 2013. For more information, visit www.careertechvision.com.

Diane Ravitch is a research professor at New York University and an historian of education. In her career, Diane has lectured throughout the United States and Europe. In addition, she has edited and written a number of books on the American education system. Her most recent book is Reign of Error: The Hoax of the Privatization Movement and the Danger to America's Public Schools. She will be the Friday General Session speaker at ACTE's CareerTech VISION 2013.