Sly - actor Sylvester Stallone - Interview

THE BEEF WHO TAKES THE CAKE

The American Dream of being a no one and becoming a someone is what Sylvester Stallone is all about. But what is less known, perhaps because it breaks the cliches of how people like to view this muscle-popping, puppy-eyed fellow, are the brains behind the brawn. Dumb doesn't make for twenty years of movie magic, and of surviving the highs and lows that come with it. As Stallone himself says, he's a human Slinky - "Bend me in a million shapes, and eventually I'll spring back to who I was." This candid interview by Stallone's pal and colleague, powerhouse producer Joel Silver, a phenomenon in his own right, reveals the man behind the mask

JOEL SILVER: Sly, it seems like you've got about $85 million coming to you in terms of movies you've committed to. When I think about that, it makes me realize you're probably the most successful actor of all time. How do you feel about that?

SYLVESTER STALLONE: I always believe if you've got one bird in the hand, why not try to grab the whole flock? Some people call that greed; I call it planning ahead for my own prosperity and my own obsolescence. I never quite understood these actors - though I envy them sometimes - who can lie out for a year or two. I feel as though time is a real pressing issue, and I want to get as much work done in the time that I have left.

JS: You've had a real burst of activity from Cliffhanger [1993] to Judge Dredd, the film you have coming out this summer.

SS: What happened is, I changed track. I think everyone has a certain kind of formula in their life. When you deviate from that formula, you're going to fail big or you're gonna win big. When I tried to branch out into comedy, I didn't do very well at it, so I went back to doing what I do naturally well, or what the audience expects from me - action pictures. People say when they see me in an action movie, "Yes, that's the Stallone I remember." Or "That's the kind of Stallone I expect." But if I decide to play a Shakespearean character, they're gonna say, "if you want to do that, why don't you do it at home and with the lights out? Why do we have to stand in the rain to see you do that?"

JS: You remind me of that Frank Sinatra song, "That's Life," when he sings about being a puppet, a pauper, a pirate, a poet, a pawn, and a king who's been up and down and over and out, but keeps picking himself up and getting back in the race....

SS: I've kind of fashioned my life after a Slinky. Bend me in a million shapes, and eventually I'll spring back to what I originally was.

JS: But how do you feel about making action movies?

SS: Lucky. See, lately - I don't know why - action movies have become like the movie business's equivalent of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. Just as Quasimodo was the ugly duckling in literature, action films have become the sore spot for critics. In the old days, people talked about the biblical scenarios of action films. The Bible is action-packed. The Koran is action-packed. Even Buddha had a few moments of suspense in his life. Yet, when we make action movies now, we're considered moneymaking machines with no esoteric worth, and that's not true at all. There's a lot of artistry that goes into what we do. I tend to think of action movies as exuberant morality plays in which good triumphs over evil.

JS: Some critics think of action movies as formula movies, which is why they don't respect them.

SS: Most action is based on redemption and revenge, and that's a formula. Moby Dick was formula. It's how you get to the conclusion that makes it interesting. But I tell you what - life is ... what would you say?

JS: Formulaic?

SS: I would say so. Formulatio.

JS: Assassins, the picture you're starring in and I'm producing here in Seattle right now [for a fall release], is a departure, though.

SS: I know this sounds pretentious, but why not? it's an existentialist action film with a philosophy of "What I am not, I will be someday." Everyone in the film is in flux, but it's done in a subtle fashion. The images are stronger than in any film I've done in this particular genre. And it's a film that's stressful in an entertaining way. It's Hitchcockian.

JS: The director of Assassins, Richard Donner, and I made Lethal Weapon [1987], which helped establish the buddy genre. I look at this film as an anti-buddy movie, because your character and the one played by Antonio Banderas never become friends.

SS: It's an antisocial picture, yeah. I like that. And you know what else is interesting? I am the adult in it. You have a young fellow [Banderas] who wants to take a shot at being who I am. It sets this thing in your mind about your own mortality starting to bear. See, when I'm doing a character, I try to make it a lot more personal than perhaps it's intended to be.

JS: if we look at the trajectory of your career, it really is remarkable to realize that Rocky came out almost twenty years ago.

SS: Ouch.

JS: But you're still in the forefront of the movie business. That's rare, especially in this day and age, when careers can be fleeting. What do you feel is the reason for your popularity?

SS: I think every actor, every producer, every director, and every sports team has highs and lows, peaks and valleys. I think that if you survive your valleys, and if you stay true to what you are, your audience will rediscover you. People love to fall in love again. They fall out of love and in love, out of love, in love.

JS: So how does that take us to Judge Dredd?

SS: I loved the property immediately, because it takes a genre that I love, quote, "the action morality film," and makes it a bit more sophisticated. It has political overtones. It shows how if we don't curb the way we run our judicial system, the police may end up running our lives, because nothing else seems to work. I love the movie, because it deals with unemployment, it deals with archaic governments, it deals with cloning and all kinds of things that could happen in the future. It's also bigger than any film I've ever done in its physical stature and the way it was designed. It shows how all people are dwarfed by the system and by architecture, and how insignificant human beings will be in the future. There's a lot of action in the movie and some great moments of acting, too. It isn't just balls to the wall.

JS: There has been discussion about the monosyllabic characters you've played in the past, but Judge Dredd really gave you a chance to go over the top verbally.

SS: I love being verbal in films. In some of the early films that I did, including Rocky and F.I.S.T. [1978], the characters I played never stopped talking. Even though Rocky wasn't overly bright or insightful, he just never stopped floating these thundering philosophies. I think the monosyllabic thing began between Nighthawks [1981] and Rambo [First Blood, 1982]. And even though I would do millions of interviews - something that I find myself wanting to do less and less - that image is still strong. Even though people see me verbalizing nonstop with talk show hosts, it doesn't compute. I've been identified as the strong, silent type, onscreen and off.

JS: You're still identified with Rocky. You told me a story once about when your room was on TV, and some guy called in and said, "Hey! Yo, Ma!" And she said, "Hey, Rocky!"

SS: A stranger called up and went [does exaggerated Rocky voice], "Hey, how ya doin', Ma? We'll have some pizza, Ma, ya know whadda mean? Hey, Ma, Ma." She went, "Hi, son. How are you?" I called her that night and said, "Mom. Listen to my voice. We've known each other for four thousand years. Do I ever go, 'Hey, how ya doin', Ma? Want some pizza?' - like, with four a's at the end of 'pizzaaaa'?" She said, "No." I said, "You are as bad as everyone else! You think I am Rocky, too!" It's strange, because this hasn't happened to certain other actors who played fighters with strong accents. People were willing to accept that they'd been acting. For some odd reason, it became a mint mark on me.

JS: There's also the case of Eugene O'Neill's father [James O'Neill], who played the part of the Count of Monte Cristo early in his life and never got away from it.

SS: Never. It drove him crazy, and eventually he became this world-class lush, I think. I know the feeling. Fortunately, I don't like the taste of liquor that much, so I'm OD'ing on oatmeal cookies. Not quite as romantic, but whenever I get bad reviews I just slink over to the corner with a bottle of Bisquick and go at it.

JS: We have found out, you and I, about a culture in New Guinea where they pray to Rambo as a god. How do you feel about that?

SS: That's one step beyond, O.K.? Imagine going there and sitting around, ordering an espresso, and by accident you trip and you scrape your knee and they see blood and they go, "He's human." Next thing you know, you're in a pot.

JS: So what about the future, Sly?

SS: I have great expectations for the future, because the past was highly overrated. But I'm also a little worried, because one only has a certain amount of bullets left, and how many bullets can you fire in the future that really hit a target? I'd like to do some writing and directing again, but after all the trappings of success, you wonder if you still have the eye of the tiger, the voraciousness, those drooling jaws like the alien that wants to go out and snatch life by the throat and rip it to shreds? Or have our molars gotten a little flat and our ears bent and are we as tough as we used to be? Even though, in our minds, we can still go the distance and can still fight for the championship, the body just isn't there anymore. I have a lack of fear, whereas in the past the fear of failure was a powerful motivator. Anyway, I have great expectations for the future, but I just don't know if I'm the monarch of all I survey.

JS: You're settling down more, right?

SS: Yeah. I have two lovely sons and some good memories, but I've had a rather tumultuous personal life. It hasn't been dull; I've been the Hiroshima of love. It hasn't been as productive or as civilized as I would have liked it to have been. Perhaps that's because of my shortcomings, my inability to read a situation. But I have to go for it now, because I don't want to be some fella sitting there for the janitor to sweep up in the morning. That would be life-threatening and I think I would become quite loathsome.

JS: So what about Angie [Everhart, Stallone's fiancee]?

SS: I'll just say this: I have a fantastic relationship going with Angie. We're engaged, and I swore to her that we are going to keep our private moments private. I'm a patriot of the heart. [laughs] It's a very strong and adult relationship, and so far I feel good about it. I feel like I'm actually growing in self-respect. It's nice at this particular age to rediscover aspects of yourself that you like.

JS: You've also settled into a new town. Why Miami, though?

SS: Uh, adventure. I think that I mined all of the nuggets out of Los Angeles, and I found myself on a kind of a treadmill. So I went to Miami and bought a house that belonged to John Deere, founder of the Deere Tractor Company. The place is a work of art to me, and I've put a great deal of time and money into it.

JS: Are you enjoying the decorating and landscaping that you're doing there?

SS: Oh God! If bad decorating was a hanging offense, there'd be bodies hanging from every tree! I've never been more frustrated in my life. In my house, the walls are seventeen-feet thick - sixteen feet of that is paint. [JS laughs] There's just layer after layer. Right now, it's like a movie set where I'll go, "Strike everything! Pull that!" I expect it done the next day, and when it isn't, I throw a fit. I just don't have the patience. I'll have to go away and have some genius do it.

JS: isn't it a great movie-star ability to be able to create a great house for yourself? We all grew up looking at these fantastic homes of Hollywood stars in Beverly Hills in the '30s and '40s.

SS: I think that's become passe, but if you can surround yourself with a kind of monument to yourself and your family - a statement - and you can afford it, then that's a noble project. It's something you can leave behind so people will go, "Yeah, this is what he was all about. He was interested in culture and architecture and building something that would last beyond the flesh on his bones, which has just become food for the worms. This will endure." So I'm thinking along those terms. Maybe someday someone'll buy my house and really see the love that went into it. What I'm trying to do now in my life - not just with the building, but with everything - is to construct things that will have enduring qualities, and won't just be ephemeral flashes in the pan.

JS: You've always been a great collector of art, and now you've built this incredible place to house it. Do you think you'll ever complete your art collection?

SS: No, there is no finish line, no peace when it comes to collecting. I've always wanted to go out and find something bigger. I was very much into buying contemporary art, but I've just decided I want to get rid of it all. Not that it's not great art, but all of a sudden my mood has changed, and I want to go back to seventeenth- and eighteenth-century masters. Three years ago, I wouldn't have had them in the house. Now, the house dictates it. Isn't that wild? That's what's so fascinating about art - all of a sudden you wake up one morning with a different aesthetic, and it's just as valid as the one you had before. Suddenly I've got an overwhelming desire to surround myself with the aura of classical and Romantic art.

JS: Are you doing any painting yourself?

SS: If I can ever build a studio at my house - if I can find the right construction worker I'm ready to start. I'm ready to buy a little notebook and some charcoal and sit in a bus station like I used to and just sketch people that are coming and going.

JS: We've talked about relationships. How do you feel about your friendships?

SS: At one time I thought I could call all of my friends with a dime, as the joke goes. All friends are like flawed jewels, and when you understand that none of them are going to be outstandingly perfect, but that through all the crap they will still shine because they have integrity and they can be brutally honest with you and have the pride to tell you to go to hell if you step on them - those are real friends. Those are people that you can count on when your back is to the wall. When you're on top and you lead the parade, everyone's there throwing lilies and lilac water on your head. But when those parades have gone by and there's a storm in your heart, there are very few people that are going to sit there and listen to you bemoan life. I've weeded out quite a few people, and the ones that have remained have been valuable, even though I am rough on friends and I like to tease and torment them in a good-natured way. It's kind of like men fencing - that's the way I show friendship. It's a man thing, I guess. How long have we known each other?

JS: I first came to you when I was a young employee of [producer] Larry Gordon back in the early '80s. We tried to make a deal with you to star in 48 HRS. [1982], but it didn't happen.

SS: And here you are asking intimate details about my life on the set of a movie that you're producing. To me, that's a hallmark of friendship. I remember calling you when you had these scurrilous stories written about you, because I understand the pain that people go through when their life is misinterpreted in print for everyone to laugh at. I felt like that deserved a call, because that's a wound that I can really put a salve on. I've been there. I know what it's like to be mocked, when inside all you really care about is the work.

JS: One thing about you is you always stand up for your friends. I noticed that you wanted to go to the Oscars this year because Elton John's been a friend of yours for so many years.

SS: Elton befriended me about ten years ago for no reason. He would do things like rent amusement parks, or he would be at your beck and call to play a private concert, and he wanted nothing in return - just to laugh, just to be happy. Here's a man who has been on an extraordinary roller coaster - good and bad press - and is one of the great artists. So I wanted to be there for Elton, even though the Oscars, if you're not receiving one, can be a real tour de force in testing your patience.

JS: Since you've already won an Oscar, I guess you're looking for new worlds to conquer. Now that you're a guaranteed box office success -

SS: No, there's no guarantee in this place.

JS: Well, you're almost a guarantee. And you're also a writer, producer, director, and a restaurateur. So how do you feel about where you are right now?

SS: I'm more focused and have a greater sense of challenge, because I constantly feel the weight of time. Do I have enough time to achieve my goals, and will my goals be realistic ones? I'm always in a quandary here. And I still use the fear factor. Am I going to sit back and look at this scene ten or-fifteen years from now and be able to look at it? Our indulgences and the times we allow ourselves to be lackluster are going to haunt us forever on the big screen. Maybe a movie can't work on every level, but I want people to say, "Yeah, he gave everything he had to it. There was a sense of true sacrifice in the movie. He didn't just rest on his laurels." I don't want anyone ever to say of me, "His fire went out, and he didn't know how to reignite it."

COPYRIGHT 1995 Brant Publications, Inc.
COPYRIGHT 2000 Gale Group