The Sybil of soul - Me'Shell Ndegeocello - Interview

Me'Shell Ndegeocello is going to have Bible pounders plotzing with her controversial new album, Peace Beyond Passion. She also puts the fun back in funky

Read one way, the dossier on Me'Shell Ndegeocello could provide just another PC yawn: bass-playing, black, bisexual mother and singer who pens tough-minded lyrics and has a warm spot for diverse musical styles. However, since her debut album, Plantation Lullabies [1993], the first signee to Madonna's Maverick label has also built a smokehouse of sultry, sexy soul music. And far from the beatific earth person one might expect, she loves made-for-TV movies, drives a bombed-out car, and longs to own a seedy hotel.

Now comes her second album, Peace Beyond Passion (Maverick/Reprise), and it is a corker. Song titles mimic books of the Bible, and lyrics upend scripture to ask some disquieting questions about how the primary text of Western religious thought has failed many of those who most need its help. Politics aside, Passion is sweetly human and also smiles with the honeyed glow of early-'70s Stevie Wonder. This summer, look for Ndegeocello as she puts the funk in Lollapalooza's crunchy cousin, the H.O.R.D.E. tour, and deposes herself to the press (as she will surely have to) about her gutsy, confrontational new single, "Leviticus: Faggot." When Me'shell called us from Los Angeles, where she lives with her son, Solomon Askia, and her girlfriend, Winifred, she was in the middle of a frolicsome morning bath.

ALISON POWELL: The Bible obviously figures greatly in your new record. Were you raised in a particular church?

ME'SHELL NDEGEOCELLO: Yeah, Baptist. Now what could I say about Baptists that won't get me in trouble? There's a blues song that says you can go out on Monday, sin on Tuesday, and, you know, so long as you get to church on Sunday and you're dressed really well...

AP: To give the appearance of being sorry?

MN: Yeah. You got to dress well. I've been dealing with the "I'm gonna burn in hell" thing for the last twenty-seven years. I also went to Catholic school, which was no fun at all. And that's how I grew up. I always saw religion as just some way to stunt your creative growth. To put you in fear.

AP: But the Bible has also been a source of strength for so many people. Is there anything useful in it for you?

MN: I think about that all the time. I'm probably obsessed with that question. Religion is there to make people feel comfortable, to give them parameters. You know, we're born, we have this mother, and when the least little thing goes wrong, we look to our mother, right? But when you get to be twenty-seven, thirty, you're supposed to be an adult. I think we're always looking for something to guide us. For some people religion works really well, and for others I think it torments them and makes them really awful people.

AP: I suppose history can work for or against you, as far as what's acceptable in the world at the time.

MN: Yeah, history's weird. For example, the cats that came over to America first were seeking religious freedom and now the religious right wants to be in control. Things get so hypocritical at times. For me, God is probably the source of my every breath. So I don't throw away religion because of the people. That's why I want to be able to eventually study all [religions]. But just as Hindus believe you find an inner self when you release the worldly self, I'm starting to wonder if religion might not be just a remnant of the world, too. I want to get to the point where I'm so at one with God and so peaceful that religion is obsolete. I guess this album is, in a sense, my questioning of religion.

AP: How did you go about that?

MN: I was told a story, I don't know if it's true, that whenever [England's] King James wanted some entertainment, he'd pick a story from the Bible and change it. So what I'm saying on this record is, "Why can't I do that, too?" Maybe Judas was the really cool cat, you know? We need to realize that no one really knows anything.

AP: I feel like I'm treating you like a nun -

MN: Go ahead! [laughs]

AP: - but how have you kept your faith?

MN: Be truthful? I used to think the only way I'd find peace was to kill myself. I really don't get the worldly thing. Though I'm in a business, and I love making music, there are things that come with it that I think are obnoxious. When you start, you either beat yourself up or put yourself on such a high pedestal you think your shit don't stink. You start to forsake people, you start to be judgmental, and I don't want that to happen. So without the faith I think I'd just end it all.

AP: Your quest for a religionless faith, though, is probably still pretty radical. Socially, people need to belong to -

MN: Something. But everything is convoluted, such as the race issue. I don't think there's any single unifying factor in the world except for religion. Black people should be this unified force, but we're not. Color just doesn't do it. I hate the term African-American. That one is really bad because, for instance, my grandfather's Irish. Even musically, it's either "alternative" or "pop" or something else.

AP: Which brings up your single "Leviticus: Faggot," which will be a hard sell to any format.

MN: Yeah, I don't think "Faggot" will get played on radio.

AP: Will it be unplayable because It breaks ground by being openly gay?

MN: But it doesn't break ground. You ever heard a tune by Funkadelic called "Jimmy's Got a Little Bit of Bitch in Him"? You know, a lot of gay men just aren't with it. They won't like "Faggot."

AP: Is that because you'll be misinterpreted as saying that homosexual life is difficult and therefore something to be saved from?

MN: But I am sort of saying that. I feel that way. By that I mean, I went through a period where I thought, Oh God, I'm gay and it's killing me. It's not easy, and I'd like to meet someone [who's gay] who's never felt that way.

AP: Musically, though, it's almost catchy.

MN: Yeah, and the song "Free My Heart" is a really good tune. But even though it's probably too rock for some stations, others won't play it because I'm black. I hate radio programmers.

AP: It seems like you are something of an island.

MN: That's right, floating, about to have a volcanic eruption and sink to the bottom. [laughs] I'm just frustrated.

AP: Ironically, twenty-five years ago radio was much simpler, yet there was all kinds of strange stuff on the charts.

MN: There you go. You had Sly Stone, the Rolling Stones, Iron Butterfly, and Dobie Gray all together. All that's gone. Sometimes I feel like I'm out to write my eulogy.

AP: Do you mean you don't know where to go after this record?

MN: Well, yeah. Maybe I'll own a seedy hotel. I don't know, it's too frustrating. This is really stupid, but I actually sat around and thought, I could just go and get the flavor-of-the-month producer and make some regular R&B - an easy radio tune. And then I'd just look at myself and go, "You've got to be joking." Although anyone who plays music or creates any kind of art in a commercial sense who says they don't want people to like what they do is lying. And it's really hard to be in black music because you're not allowed to ride the line between, say, rock and rap, you know?

AP: Do you like the Idea of remixing songs to get them played in other places?

MN: Remixes can burn in hell forever. When you bought Innervisions [by Stevie Wonder] were you looking for a remix?

AP: No.

MN: Right! I could have sworn that's how it was meant to be. And now my record company tells me that remixes "give me more options." Kiss my ass!

AP: How do you feel about DJs?

MN: Have you ever seen the movie Play Misty for Me? My man, he was the coolest DJ. [Clint Eastwood] played tunes like you were sitting at home with him listening to records. I miss those kinds of DJs. I guess that's corny, but you wanted one who had a smooth voice, was an interesting person, and who was letting you into his world. But we don't have that now. We've got little motherfuckers in suits telling us what we want to hear. And everybody's gotta be so fucking happy and chipper. AP: We've talked about the religious part of the album, but the second half of the record is made up of love songs. Do you ever feel like saying, "Life isn't all politics"?

MN: Hey, love is the bomb. You know why a person plays in a rock 'n' roll band?

AP: To meet girls?

MN: There you go! So love is everything. I think we're all obsessed. We are all driven by sex.

AP: I know that's why guys form bands.

MN: Girls are the same way. I mean, you could be ugly, but as long as you play the guitar or something . . . guitar players and sax players really do O.K.

AP: But the bass is sexy, right?

MN: I don't know. I think just because I'm up front I get a little bit more. [to Winifred] Not for real, honey. I get more attention. [laughs]

AP: Well, the bass is sexy. It's so pelvic and deep.

MN: Yeah, in fact, the uterus is very responsive to bass tones. It's the low frequencies. Go to a party or to big shows and watch how girls love to sit on the woofers.

AP: Was sexiness the reason you decided to cover that great Bill Withers song about jealousy, "Who is He and What Is He to You"?

MN: I think we did it because it has a really good tambourine part. But then I listened to the lyrics and I thought it would be cool to do it and not change the words.

AP: Is it true you play a ton of instruments?

MN: Actually, I'll tell you a secret. I don't play a ton. I just play the main ones, the ones that get on the records. Because, you know, if I played the accordion, no one would really give a fuck. But I play keyboards, a little bit of guitar, and bass, and I can program drums and stuff.

AP: How schizophrenic.

MN: Actually, you know, I think I might have that. What was that movie? Sybil?

AP: Are you the funk Sybil?

MN: That's me. That's it.

COPYRIGHT 1996 Brant Publications, Inc.
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