`A great job with great opportunities': following his receiving the Public Sector Excellence Award, FIRE spoke to DGFO Jagtar Singh and found out why the award is important to the Service, what needs to be done to recruit a diverse workforce, the value of the multi-faith seminars, and why he believes the watch system is not objectionable - Equality

FIRE: Congratulations on winning the Public Sector Excellence Award. What did that mean to you personally and what benefit do you think it will bring to the Fire Service?

JS: For me, it meant an awful lot. There are a lot of people who contributed towards winning that award. Although I accepted the award, I know that you can not win awards such as this on your own efforts, you need the commitment and support of others.

Without my family's support I would not have been able to give the time to the Service that I've been able to on weekends and evenings and do the charitable work outside of work.

For the Fire Service, this was extra special at a time when our image has been tarnished by the media. The job of a firefighter is not just fighting fires, there is a lot more to it. It is about the community, it is about service and that word `service' means more than just putting a fire out. It means getting involved in the community, whether that is charitable work or other activities in the community.

If I go back to my early days as a firefighter, I was fortunate enough to play football and cricket for my brigade and at national level. I was also involved in the community, such as running football and cricket teams. When I was a station officer, my watch raised over 500 [pounds sterling] in a single day for Comic Relief and 3,000 [pounds sterling] a few months later for Children in Need when we put our minds to creating a record for the station.

When I was appointed to ADO on C division in the West Midlands with the support of all the fire station we created a record for the division when we collected 21,000 [pounds sterling] in one day for Children in Need. This demonstrated to me what the Fire Service can achieve when everybody pulls together for a common cause.

In 1991, we raised 5,000 [pounds sterling] for Romania in five currencies in five days and we received an award form the Romanian embassy and this resulted in a request to support the work of an orphanage charity in Bucharest.

We accepted the challenge to go to Bucharest to repair an orphanage. It was naive for us to think we could finish all the work needed in a week. When we arrived in Romania we found that the toilets did not flush, there were no showers, hot water, or double glazing, so we adopted the building and said as long as children at the orphanage had a need for our services we would support them--that was over 12 years ago. Many of the original team still supports Romania with aid and this group now runs three projects in Romania. That's the firefighters and community of the West Midlands working together.

The award I feel was also for the Rotary work such as for the Gujarat Farthquake victims. Mick Singh a close friend who is a committee member of my local Sikh temple and runs the Merry Maid--a small local pub--said to me soon after the earthquake: "Jack, we have to do something for the people of Gujarat". We planned in less than a week and raised 10,000 [pounds sterling] in a little, backstreet pub in a single day, thanks to the support we the Fire Service received.

There are loads of people out there doing this work: it is their award, without them, I could not have done it. I was a conduit to do all the things they wanted.

FIRE: Is the current public perception of the Fire Service contrary to the reality with so many people doing things similar to what you described?

JS: There are many unsung heroes in the Fire Service, lots of unsung heroes in a lot of brigades that are working quietly in the background. And they're so highly respected. I have been able to raise up to 1,000 [pounds sterling] a year for Romania because I am a firefighter. If I was working in a car factory, I would not be able to do that.

That is why it is so important to maintain a positive image. That is why stories of firefighters raising money for handicapped children, raising money for famine relief in Africa, for Romania--I am confident the positive images will be back.

FIRE: So do you find it frustrating that the work that people like yourself are doing has been put to one side during this dispute, and the opposite perception has been forwarded?

JS: The charity work of the Fire Service goes on however unreported. The thing that annoys me most is the way the Fire Service is currently being knocked by the media. However, it is a robust image and I am sure it is an image that will bounce back because the job we do in the community is second to none. We are highly respected and will continue to occupy that position long after the current dispute has been forgotten.

FIRE: What do you think about Julie Mellor's claim that the current watch system doesn't work in terms of being able to recruit and retain a more diverse workforce?

JS: I am sure Julie has reasons for her views and the watch culture on some watches would have a negative affect. However, the evidence I have from my Brigade Command Course research is quantitative and qualitative--from over 430 questionnaires and 30 interviews, plus over 25 years' experience in the Fire Service.

I would say the single factor that affects the recruitment of ethnic minority firefighters and women is marketing. Many women and ethnic minority people do not even consider a job in the Fire Service because they know little of the Service.

Sixty per cent of people who join the Fire Service know somebody in the Service--what we have is a predominantly white male occupation that promotes the recruitment of white males. What we need is more role models and more positive action campaigns. We need the support of all firefighters in the Service to sell the job to all sections of the community, particularly women and ethnic minority sections of the community. I regularly tell them this is a great job with opportunities to progress, and great opportunities to do things for the community.

FIRE: What about the negative publicity on bullying and harassment?

JS: People from under-represented groups, particularly ethnic minority firefighters, are bullied and harassed. They get bullied and harassed when they walk down the street, they get bullied and harassed when they go to a football match ... for them, coming into the Fire Service environment today is no different from the rest of society, where bullying and harassment happens. However, the protection they get in the Fire Service is greater than the protection they often get in the community. The protection they get is from the Discipline Regulations and from the equality and fairness policy of the FBU.

Uniformed members of the Service are coming to realise that if they bully and harass somebody they could lose their job; they will not get protection from the union because the union will carry out an investigation. If they find there is a case to answer, they will not get any legal support.

The culture of the Fire Service now is much better than when I joined and people are more aware of bullying and harassment polices. People joining the Fire Service now are also much more aware of their rights and much more respectful of each others' cultures as well. We are not perfect by any means but I do not think it is the watch culture that is stopping them applying to join the Service. Most women and ethnic minority people do not even know it is an issue. I believe we have a long way to go to make our station more friendly and tolerant of people who are different. However, this does not have a major impact on our ability to recruit women and ethnic minority firefighters..

FIRE: It's not something we need to change?

JS: For me it is a myth that we cannot attract enough ethnic minority people and women into the Fire Service because the culture is wrong. If we wait for the culture to change then we will never change. It is a fantastic job--I would encourage people from all sectors of the community to join.

FIRE: Do you take an active part in recruitment?

JS: I do it because I passionately believe in it and I do it because I honestly believe all the things I have said about the job; the opportunities it offers to serve the community and for self-fulfillment in doing a good job, the variety it offers and the conditions of service. I try my best to be a good role model; I believe I have been able to make an impact particularly in my last brigade on recruitment as well as nationally through the FBU and BEAMM. What we need is to understand why diversity is an issue for the Service. Providing the community with more women and ethnic minority firefighters can lead to better service to the community. In Atlanta, USA by recruiting more ethnic minority firefighters from the at risk group, fire deaths in the black community have fallen by 50 per cent in the last 15 years.

FIRE: What is your influence on the national scene, with initiatives such as the multi-faith seminar?

JS: I am proud of all the things I have done, however this is one thing I hope will leave a lasting effect on the Service. The idea of introducing multi-faith into the Service came out of September 11, after a friend defended an elderly woman in full Islamic dress on a bus in Birmingham who was being abused by six men. He told me he could not understand what was going on.

That triggered me off to think: "What could happen in the community, and in the Service, as a result of lack of understand-Service, as a result of lack of understanding of faith? What is the worst-case scenario?". I felt we the Service had a part to play in dealing with the lack of understanding in the community as well as in our Service. We also had a opportunity to engage with faith communities to achieve our core objectives of reducing fire deaths and casualties as well as recruiting from a more diverse group.

I found the seminar so successful that people who attended talked about it being a life-changing experience. About a month later I was invited to Avon by CFO Pearson for the launch of their Connecting Communities project and I found their officers were talking about the seminar and what they'd done, they had established links with the local Sikh temple, members of which were prepared to do CFS work with Avon. I thought, I've never seen the Fire Service take on a subject so quickly.

FIRE: Can these seminars have a positive impact for recruitment?

JS: You have to ask yourself why are you going there? What is the role of the Fire Service in the community? How can you help the temple, the mosque? How it can help you and what do you want help for?

You want help in reducing deaths and casualties, you want help from them in recruiting a more diverse workforce. Within that group there will be members of the community who want to serve and will make good firefighters, and if you can get people from multi-faith backgrounds, we can then meet some of those targets for reducing fire deaths and casualties within those communities. Moreover, we can recruit and retain more under-represented groups because we understand those communities.

FIRE: Would multi-tier entry help in the short-term?

JS: Multi-tier entry should not be seen as a route to getting more women and ethnic minority firefighters/officers into the Service. Two tier entry should be viewed as a means of attracting a more diverse group of people who will bring skills and competencies that we currently lack. If that leads to more women and ethnic minority firefighters then it should be on the basis that they are the best people in their field and not recruited to meet targets, as that would be most unhelpful and detrimental to the image of the under-represented groups.

A future issue will feature an article on DCFO Singh's findings from his BCC report

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