Post Magazine: Happy Father's Day, Donor

Michael Leahy

Byline: Hosted by Michael Leahy

Mike Rubino is the father of Raechel McGhee's son, Aaron, and daughter, Leah, by way of a sperm bank. Until recently, they knew him only as Donor 929. And then, for one week, they became a family.

Read the article: Family Vacation (Post, June 19)

Michael Leahy, whose article about insemination by donor appeared in Sunday's Washington Post Magazine, was online to field questions and comments.

Michael Leahy is a Magazine staff writer.

A transcript follows.

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Bombay, India: Michael,

Congratulations on writing a deeply moving story. Do you think it is harder for Raechel McGhee and the children to live away from Mike Rubino, i.e. not as a family, now that they have met him? Considering they don't plan to be a conventional family ever, is it harder now that they have met, particularly for the children?

Michael Leahy: Welcome to everyone. We have many questions, so let me try to answer a few. To Bombay: Thank you for your comment and question. I do believe it is hard for Raechel, Aaron, and Leah to be away from Mike Rubino, but as I've noted in the story, Raechel now is taking steps to move to Los Angeles so that the children can be close to Rubino. They will also be seeing each other next month in Los Angeles during an extended stay.

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Chevy Chase, Md.: Michael:

That was a terrific article/story. Sort of stuff movies are made of. Do you have plans to track the Rubino-McGhee families over the years? For Aaron in particular, how much of the process of donor sperm does he follow? E.g. when you talk of masturbatoriums in the Cryobank facility? I went to a fertility clinic for several years and always used to think what a strange place they are -- all those Playboy magazines and sterile nature to what can ultimately be a beautiful process and result. Can Aaron balance the clinical nature with the result -- the creation of his own life?

Michael Leahy: Thank you, Chevy Chase. Aaron already knows much about the sperm and egg, so much that he briefly explained the fertilization process to me one day, as his sister acted as his chorus. You raise a great question about what effect, if any, the contemplation of the process has on a donor-conceived child's life. In listening to Ryan Kramer, the highly intelligent, precocious Colorado teenager already in college, I had the sense that he was largely unaffected by the process but deeply hungering for more information about his biological father/donor, which was a thread among donor-conceived children and parents with whom I spoke.

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State College, Pa.: Wonderful, well-written, engrossing article. I'm curious how the story of McGhee and Rubino first came to your attention -- how did you hear about it?

Michael Leahy: I was in Kentucky on another matter, when a terrific woman told me privately about having conceived children through use of a sperm donor, then going on to tell me about her children and her curiosity about their anonymous donor. I have not written about her in this piece (she spoke with complete anonymity), but the genesis was with her story.

Then I made some calls, learned about a site called Donor Sibling Registry, and in turn, learned about Raechel McGhee and Mike Rubino.

McGhee and Rubino connected on Donor Sibling Registry.

Donor Sibling Registry's web address is donorsiblingregistry.com, and they've currently matched about 830 half-siblings with each other. They also have more than 4,800 members/families registered on their site.

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D.C.: What rights does a donor have once he has been identified and contacted? Let's say hypothetically something should happen to the mother, leaving the children orphaned . . . could the donor step in and claim parental rights over the claims of say the mother's parents (i.e., the kids' grandparents). Or what if the donor doesn't feel the mother is a good parent? What happens then? I'm all for openness, but the size of the can of worms that this process now opens is staggering.

Michael Leahy: As it stands now, a donor like Rubino has no rights, unless the mother later chooses to give up some rights and, in the process, relinquish her autonomy. Rubino signed papers waiving any rights at the time he joined the California Cryobank.

As the story notes, however, Raechel McGhee (with Rubino's encouragement) has begun the process of changing her children's names to include Rubino's name, and is crafting her will so as to give the children to Rubino should she die. She sees Mike as part of the family, and Mike regards himself as part of that family.

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Santiago, Chile: A brief comment from Chile:

I thought the article was very moving. Also, the way both "parents" behaved (if this word befits), according to the article, shows how true they are to themselves. Both Mr. Rubino and Ms. McGhee showed respect to the children who really are the ones that need the warmth of a family. Single-parent families have to work very hard in order to help their children grow up with equilibrium. Even though Ms. McGhee is (was) aware of her children's fatherhood, she showed a real and caring love, something that's becoming scarce these days as our lives are more and more involved in providing materially for our families.

I would like to send my congratulations to the writer of this article. It was as though I was watching the movie already.

A story like this deserves to be read and heard not only by America but also by the rest of society.

Michael Leahy: A posting from Chile. Thanks for the comment.

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Falls Church, Va.: Michael, great story! My question: Is anything similar happening with donor eggs? I believe the first baby from a donor egg was born in 1983. Many of these kids have got to be going through the same thing -- looking for the woman who provided the egg that allowed them to be born. Did you get into this world at all in your research? Thanks!

Michael Leahy: Just a quick comment. Yes, you hear, anecdotally, of similar searches for women/biological mothers.

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Arlington, Va.: This story made me feel conflicted. On the one hand, I could easily understand how the donor felt about wanting to know how many children he had sired, and his desire to meet some of those children. I can also understand the mother's and children's desires to meet the donor, even though that seems to be opposite the point of the anonymity in these clinics. On the other hand, the article made me feel vaguely creeped out; I couldn't help feeling uncomfortable while I was reading the story. I kept putting myself in everyone's shoes and just felt it was "weird," for lack of a better term.

Michael Leahy: We have many comments today, so I want to give equal time to all sides here. A posting from Arlington. . .

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Baltimore, Md.: Michael, I thought your piece was excellent. Have you read the Genius Factory, the new book out? I heard about it on Good Morning America and read it and it covers similar themes. It's a great read for people who want more on this topic.

Michael Leahy: Thanks for the nice words, Baltimore. I have not yet gotten around to reading the Genius Factory, but I spoke with the author, David Plotz, a terrific writer and keen observer. I look forward to reading it, and sense that I'm going to love it.

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Columbia, Md.: I am truly appalled that Raechel McGhee would not only make arrangements to travel to L.A. with her children to meet a stranger, but actually stay in the same house for days with this stranger! Did she ever consider that she and her children might be in jeopardy? I think that her intense desire to have a relationship has clouded her judgment. Raechel and Mike Rubino did not become a family overnight simply because her eggs and his sperm created two children -- that takes years of love, respect and commitment. It's like the difference between a sperm donor and a one night stand -- although neither one typically has the basis for a true relationship, at least with the one night stand there was a level of intimacy between both people at the time of conception. Karen

Michael Leahy: A posting from a Maryland reader. . .

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D.C.: Great article, Michael. Can you explain how you were able to write such a detailed story? How did you arrange to be with the family during this period? What was it like as a reporter to witness such a personal encounter?

Michael Leahy: Thanks for the very nice comment. These seem to be more questions about writing craft, so just drop me an e-mail sometime and we can talk. Thanks.

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Washington, D.C.: Mike Rubino's desire to be part of these children's lives is touching. But I see another aspect to this can of worms as well. The cryobank won't tell him how many children his sperm has produced . . . it could be two more, three more, or thirty more. What if more women who chose donor 929 see this article and want to contact him? Could he really become a father -- in person, not just genetically -- to all those children? I realize this is less likely to be an issue for children who were born to married but infertile parents, but as the article points out there are a lot of single moms who used the sperm bank. Has Rubino thought about this?

Michael Leahy: You raise a great question. As Rubino makes clear in the story, he has thought about all this, and it's sometimes troubling for him. Remember the scene at the sperm bank when he tries prodding officials to supply with him an approximate number of children whom he's fathered? Remember the officials' polite but firm refusal? Yes, he thinks much about the "other children" out there? So it's a potential issue for any man thinking of becoming a donor. Again, thanks for your insightful question.

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Washington, D.C.: I conceived two children through the Fairfax Cryobank (11 and 9 years ago, respectively). At the time I chose that bank precisely because of its double-blind policy -- I did not want a donor to intrude on my family.

I still feel the same way but now that my son is nine, I am tugged by his wistfulness at times to have a "dad." After I read your article I decided that if he continues to express an interest in finding his donor, I would not try to dissuade him.

Michael Leahy: A posting from a donor-conceived woman who used the Fairfax Cryobank. . .

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Alexandria, Va.: In your research did you find that the laws are moving more towards open donation rather than keeping everything anonymous? As an egg donor, I do not consider any child born to be mine, s/he is the child of the woman who carried her, and would not particularly want an eighteen year old showing up on my doorstep one day. (Although I would not mind meeting the recipients.)

Michael Leahy: "Openness" certainly seems to be the trend in much of Europe, though there has been no significant movement of note for openness in the United States, at least none that has gained political traction.

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Washington, D.C.: Michael,

Fascinating article. I have two questions: One is, how did you arrange to be there for the week the "family" was together? Wasn't that intrusive?

And second, I am wondering about what has happened since the story came out. It seems like the kids could feel awfully abandoned when their donor-father goes back to his regular life. It also seems like the donor-father could see his life become very complicated if other families contact him.

Michael Leahy: Thanks for your questions. I think I've already answered both. Again, Raechel is slowly making plans to move to L.A.

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Washington, D.C.: Now that they have initially met, does Michael completely comprehend the emotional and possibly financial burden he will face being the father to these two children? And what if 5, 10 or even 25 more children come forward? Will he then take on the Dad role for these children as well?

Michael Leahy: The possible financial burdens were a source of slight concern for Mike Rubino before Raechel ever arrived in Los Angeles. I think it is fair to say that he is so comfortable with the McGhees now, and they with him, that this is no longer a concern. Mike says he is not a rich fellow, but he would help out to the extent he could, if some need arose. He sounds devoted in the way any good father would be. And, of course, by agreeing to take the children in the event something happens to Raechel, he is signaling his willingness to take on enormous responsibility.

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University Park, Md.: Your well-written article made me very uneasy. Why, after deliberately choosing this clinical, anonymous way of becoming parents, do Mike and Raechel feel a need to connect with one another? I can understand the children wishing to know their father (though they are far too young to make an informed decision on such an important matter), but Raechel's motivation for uprooting her life to be closer to Mike seems suspect. She seems desperate to create a family when, in fact, she already has a lovely one.

Michael Leahy: A posting from University Park, MD. . .

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Arlington, Va.: Couldn't put your story down. Very intriguing and satisfying. Skillfully done. But I wonder whether the sperm banks are in for a world of trouble if the Raechel McGhees and Wendy Kramers start pressuring everybody to give up their anonymity. Care to comment?

Michael Leahy: The vast majority of American sperm banks insist they will not pressure any donor into giving up his anonymity.

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N.Y.: Do you have any idea how Mike's ex-wife feels about all of this (assuming they keep in touch)? It must be difficult considering that they broke up partly because she couldn't have children with him. I loved your article.

Michael Leahy: Mike's ex-wife could not be reached. Mike said she would not, in any event, wish to comment on the matter.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: I really enjoyed reading this story. Are they seriously considering making a film on it? What is the status of that?

Michael Leahy: This posting just reminded me of something. CBS Television will be flying Rubino to Massachusetts this week for a segment the network's Early Edition show will be doing on Mike, Raechel and the kids. So, yes, they are getting much attention.

I should note, too, that Mike and Raechel have been on the phone together virtually every night since she and the kids left L.A. The kids jump on the phone and everyone sends him e-mails. So it increasingly looks like a family to me, albeit one in which one member is 3,500 miles away from the other -- a situation, again, that Raechel hopes to remedy one day.

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Hyattsville, Md.: Mr Leahy, Thank you for a moving and sensitive account of this family's meeting. My question is about your role as an observer and writer. How much time did you spend with the family during the week described, and what would you say was the impact of your presence during this meeting?

Michael Leahy: I was with the family all but one day during their week together. I flew to Los Angeles a day before their first airport meeting, so as to spend several hours with Mike Rubino.

I have never met subjects more open to a journalist's presence than Rubino and McGhee. They allowed me everywhere, and nothing was off-limits. I'm very grateful.

As to what effect I may have had on event: I think nil, in short. I was the fly on the wall, and sometimes carrier of tote bags, luggage, etc. For them, it was like having an extra set of hands, I'd guess.

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Annandale, Va.: Great article! It scared me, but I enjoyed it all the same. As a society, what have we come to? I can't help but think of Sheri Tepper's "Gate to Women's Country." In the future, women will make all the decisions about who's genes will live on; and by remote control. This should be a wake-up call for men -- if you want to be relevant, you'd better shape up.

Michael Leahy: Posting from Annandale, VA. . .

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Richmond, Va.: Michael,

What an interesting story. What do you think the parents hoped to gain from making their story available to you? Changed laws/policies around donor/recipients meeting each other? Something else?

I do worry that McGhee is taking a big gamble with her children's emotions by relocating to LA. Does she have other ties there, or will Rubino be her only support?

Michael Leahy: I think Raechel wants to send the message that she and children are as much a family as anyone else's, and that her children have the same desire and right to find their biological father as any other child would.

Raechel does not know anyone well in Los Angeles, aside from Rubino. She regards this as a challenge, though nothing insurmountable.

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Reading, Pa.: How much did the California Cryobank cooperate with you during your research? I found the descriptions of the Cryobank fascinating. Should there be any concern for donors' privacy if sperm banks like the Cryobank are cooperating with writers?

Michael Leahy: The California Cryobank provides information about its donors in the aggregate, but will not discuss the particular files of donors. So donors can confidently believe that their anonymity will be protected. Remember: Mike Rubino came forward on his own, to look for some of his children.

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Annapolis, Md.: Does the Catholic Church or other religions have a position on insemination via sperm donor? Is there any reason to think that the American government at either a federal or state level will try to get involved with all this? Terrific story, incidentally.

Michael Leahy: Short answers: the Catholic Church has expressed opposition to the process.

And there seems no real effort, at either the federal or state level, to overhaul sperm bank policies, particularly as it involves so-called "openness."

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New York: Thank you for an illuminating and wonderfully written look at a set of lives that I'd never considered. I was surprised to read that single women, more than couples, are turning to this service. And I was surprised that some foreign countries are making it more difficult for sperm donors by requiring them to give up their anonymity, though I sympathize to an extent with kids and mothers who want to find biological fathers. Will the trending of single mothers predominantly shaping the donor market continue, you think? And will foreign countries ever loosen these non-anonymity requirements?

Michael Leahy: Thank you. Yes, the industry is increasingly trending toward servicing single women. And, no, there is nothing that suggests the foreign countries named in the story will be moving away from openness. If anything, openness seems on the march in Europe.

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Hockessin, Del.: Mr. Leahy, great article, thank you! I thought you really presented it as objectively as anyone could. My only thought is that Ms. McGhee seems to really want a relationship with Mr. Rubino, who although genuinely interested in the children, his children, wants nothing more. She on the other hand seems to be looking at their new relationship (if you can call it that) as something more than it is. Her constant "go to Daddy" comments and then her move to LA are proof, at least in my opinion. Your thoughts?

Michael Leahy: Thanks. Remember that Raechel McGhee stressed at several points in the story that she wouldn't let any silly romantic fantasy harm her children's well-being or their possible connection with Rubino. So I think the overwhelming evidence here is that her feet are solidly on the ground, and that she has thought this point through carefully and wisely.

I should note, too, that Raechel is moving slowly and carefully with her move to Los Angeles. She won't be be doing this next week, or next month. In fact, she wouldn't likely be doing this anytime before 2006.

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Richmond, Va.: As a doctor involved in fertility concerns, I wanted to thank you for a one of a kind story.

As much as I've considered such matters these last few years, your story is the first I've seen that deals with sperm donor and woman grappling from the beginning with the very natural issues of geographic distance and potentially conflicting sets of professional and personal goals, the kinds of things, in short, that are possible impediments in any relationship. Mr. Rubino's and Ms. McGhee's careful progression in their early stages together, and initial caution, were instructive and wonderfully chronicled. I do hope that you'll continue to monitor their relationship, to allow us to know about any successes or hurdles they or their children experience.

Could you talk a little about what reaction other women in Raechel McGhee's situation had to the news that she and Mr. Rubino were allowing you to spend so much time (apparently around the clock) with them?

And I'm curious whether you could ever see yourself being a sperm donor now that you've written about the subject with such empathy and enlightenment. Do you have any thoughts on what role other men might be able to play on helping the infertile? I'm just curious. Great story.

Michael Leahy: Thank you, Richmond. I would just say, in response to your last question, that it would seem critical for any potential donor to consider whether he might be haunted by thoughts of how his "children" are doing out there. If he won't be -- if he can see himself as simply performing a "service" and "aiding" a couple, or a single woman -- I think it's probably easier. I've heard some men say they could do this, while others suspect they would be haunted. I wouldn't describe Rubino as haunted, though at times, as he admits, the subject has preoccupied him.

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Scottsdale, Ariz.: How in God's name does Raechel think she's not going to be confusing her kids by introducing them to a man she doesn't even know and calling him Daddy? And I'm surprised you'd bring your skills to something like this after reading your wonderful stories about the dead man up on Everest and Mr. McGovern and Michael Jordan. You have better things to do, Michael, than dip into such fanciful nonsense as a woman chasing a man to the other side of the country and making her children hostage to her fantasy. You're obviously such a talented storyteller, the proof of which is that you made this sound so natural and inevitable. If Rachel and the donor were the dreamers, you were your readers' seducer. What the heck are the kids going to do when Daddy says he can't see them for a month because he's painting and needs his solitude? Or has a beautiful model posing?

Michael Leahy: In the interests of equal time, a posting from Arizona. . .

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Oxford, Miss.: Such a great story! It made me cry. I cannot understand choosing a father for your children, your lineage, the way one might customize the order for an automobile, basically sight unseen. I likewise cannot understand the not knowing -- how many children could be out there with my grandfather's eyes, my grandmother's tenacity. How does anyone sell that? Also -- regarding genetically linked diseases, was or is this a consideration before choosing a donor?

Michael Leahy: Thank you. You raise great questions. One, as the story notes, there is a thorough medical check for the donors, before the process moves forward.

Re your second question. So many donors and children wonder about "others like me" out there. People can feel incomplete not knowing. It is an issue to be considered before moving forward, though Ryan Kramer (the Colorado teenager) stresses that, given all the challenges, he is still incredibly happy to be here and grateful to his mom for a wonderful upbringing.

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Bethesda, Md.: What a wonderful story. There are so many different American families out there, and you told the story of this one with such elegance and sensitivity that I was disappointed it had to end. Wish you'd spent a month with them, particularly as I was interested in seeing the development of Mike Rubino's interest with the McGhee daughter. Could you describe how the relationship between Rubino and the McGhees has progressed or changed since your story went to press?

Michael Leahy: If anything, the relationship is much stronger.

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Dunn Loring, Va.: Wow . . . well, let me say I am 100% in favor of "unconventional" families, and totally support whatever path an individual or couple decides to take in order to fulfill their dreams bringing children into their lives and hearts.

I was all ready to just get up and cheer for Ms. McGhee -- what a beautiful family, what a blessing!

But then . . . all of that "Daddy" business. Every time she referred to Mr. Rubino as "your Daddy" to the children, I grit my teeth. No, this is NOT their Daddy, this is the DONOR. A daddy has a loving, permanent, committed relationship with a child -- whether he is the biological father or not. As a psychotherapist, she should know that "Daddy" is a very loaded word, and should not be thrown about lightly . . . especially when there are vulnerable children involved.

Your article states that Ms. McGhee didn't want "the emotional stakes of the visit to become too high for her children" -- do you think that calling him "Daddy" all the time was wise?

Michael Leahy: A posting from the town of Dunn Loring, VA. . .

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Baltimore, Md.: Congratulations on another eyepopping story. I think alternative families are so undercovered by mainstream media, and your story sets a new standard for a gripping but sensitive story about a donor-created family. I've always admired your work since your Alzheimer's story about your mom. You seem to look for the unusual, quirky, aberrant in your work, not to mention underdogs. Am I reading too much into your choice of topics? And could you tell me when the kids and Ms. McGhee are likely to next see Rubino?

Michael Leahy: The McGhees will be seeing Rubino next week in Massachusetts, evidently. Raechel has told me in a message that CBS wants to fly him out. After that, they'll be seeing each other in L.A. in July.

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Fairfax, Va.: Michael, I very much enjoyed your article. I am an IVF patient, and have used donor eggs in the past.

The current political climate surrounding assisted reproductive technologies is leaving me very nervous about the continued safe and legal availability of the technologies -- do you have any thoughts on this?

So many people view the use of donor sperm or eggs as "bizarre" or "unnatural" or "wrong" and I hope that people will have open minds when it comes to the fact that some of us need help in having children.

I would love to see more reporting on IVF technologies, and donor eggs, perhaps. There is a misperception that men donating sperm is okay, whereas women donating eggs is creepy.

Michael Leahy: A posting from Fairfax, VA. . .

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Upper Marlboro, Md.: Excellent work on a heart-warming story that seems fraught with possible land mines. I am glad that the mother is thrilled with the father of these children, and that he has been satisfied with finding out who he has fathered, at least two of them. I am also thrilled for the kids. However . . . this seems to be the setup for a horrid tragedy down the road. Does McGhee really intend to move the children to L.A.? Has she come to realize that this man really does need his privacy, as most artists do (I am one) and are notoriously difficult to deal with? And is he willing to give up the time that these children will take from his work, as he seemed to be instantly drawn to them, and they will become more and more needy (I have two incredible teenagers) as they get older? Man, I hope this works!

Michael Leahy: A posting from Maryland. . .

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Philadelphia, Pa.: Fascinating tale. Rubino was so good with the children, it seemed to me. Raechel was so crafty and determined in making it happen. They seem to have such different personalities but mesh very well. Did Raechel ever try to orchestrate Rubino, you think? Why do you think Raechel was open to allowing all this to happen around you? Loved the scenes of the children with Rubino. Although the week was wonderful, what kind of effect will it have on the children if Rubino ever goes away. I'm rooting for all of them. It was a very moving to see a mother go to such lengths to give her children a chance to bond with their father, no matter the circumstances. Thank you for taking us inside all this.

Michael Leahy: Thank you. Raechel and Mike agree that Raechel is the more assertive one between them. But, as the days have ticked by, Mike has increasingly weighed in with opinions, with Raechel's support.

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Santiago, Chile: My question is:

Has Mr. Rubino mentioned any interest in visiting his children in New England?

Thanks.

From Daniel Navarette

Michael Leahy: I think a few of these questions might be overlapping. Rubino will soon be seeing the McGhees in Massachusetts.

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Fairfax Station, Va.: Do you see this type of family situation as an emerging trend? Or was this particular situation working out because the parties were committed to it working out with no particular agenda?

Michael Leahy: It is far too early to call this a trend, though, clearly, Raechel McGhee and Mike Rubino are pioneers of sorts in this experiment.

I know we have so many other readers' questions here, but, unfortunately, we have run far over our allotted time today. I want to thank everyone for participating. Thanks for the great questions and intriguing comments. For those of you whose questions I was unable to answer during the chat, please feel free to contact me through e-mail at leahym@washpost.com. . . I'll look forward to chatting with everyone again soon.

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